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	<title>Comments on: Female Homosexuality: A Brief Overview</title>
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	<link>http://feministsforchoice.com/female-homosexuality-a-brief-overview.htm</link>
	<description>Pro-choice and Proud!</description>
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		<title>By: Manda</title>
		<link>http://feministsforchoice.com/female-homosexuality-a-brief-overview.htm/comment-page-1#comment-2512</link>
		<dc:creator>Manda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministsforchoice.com/?p=3297#comment-2512</guid>
		<description>We could go back and forth on this forever - everything I&#039;ve read and researched indicates homosexuality was stigmatized in ancient Rome...clearly everything you&#039;ve read and researched indicates the opposite.
If you go back and read my use of the word &quot;phallocentric&quot; in context, I believe you&#039;ll see that it&#039;s used as a descriptor, not as divisive language. To say that the medieval world was phallocentric IS historically accurate; as I said in my article, they couldn&#039;t even imagine sex as anything but a penis (or a penis-like object) penetrating an orifice. I call medieval Europe phallocentric because it was phallocentric, not because I&#039;m hostile towards men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We could go back and forth on this forever &#8211; everything I&#8217;ve read and researched indicates homosexuality was stigmatized in ancient Rome&#8230;clearly everything you&#8217;ve read and researched indicates the opposite.<br />
If you go back and read my use of the word &#8220;phallocentric&#8221; in context, I believe you&#8217;ll see that it&#8217;s used as a descriptor, not as divisive language. To say that the medieval world was phallocentric IS historically accurate; as I said in my article, they couldn&#8217;t even imagine sex as anything but a penis (or a penis-like object) penetrating an orifice. I call medieval Europe phallocentric because it was phallocentric, not because I&#8217;m hostile towards men.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz_Az</title>
		<link>http://feministsforchoice.com/female-homosexuality-a-brief-overview.htm/comment-page-1#comment-2506</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz_Az</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 03:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministsforchoice.com/?p=3297#comment-2506</guid>
		<description>Rational thinking alert, Manda: if homosexuality was highly stigmatized, then why would they depict homosexual acts on frescos? Why would homosexuals publicly flaunt their sexuality? The fact is that male homosexuality in Rome was NOT viewed as an aberrant act. It WAS practiced, regardless if it was used in a &quot;master/slave&quot; relationship or consentually. 

Perhaps we just see things differently. I am a lesbian who has gotten over her obsession with &quot;male domination&quot; and patriarchal this and that. It just made me hostile and bitter. I can still be a feminist, but still accept the differences between genders. That is a reason why I object to the use of &quot;phallocentric&quot;. It just comes off as anti-male, which is a mistake our feminist forebears made. We have to accept biology for what it is and make changes to the culture by treating everyone equally, not using words that divide. Go ahead and use such words, but to make change, you&#039;ll need men on your side. You can&#039;t get them on your side if you make them feel hostile. I&#039;m fighting for marriage equality, but am realistic to know we need straights on our side. That&#039;s why you won&#039;t catch me using words like &quot;heterocentric&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rational thinking alert, Manda: if homosexuality was highly stigmatized, then why would they depict homosexual acts on frescos? Why would homosexuals publicly flaunt their sexuality? The fact is that male homosexuality in Rome was NOT viewed as an aberrant act. It WAS practiced, regardless if it was used in a &#8220;master/slave&#8221; relationship or consentually. </p>
<p>Perhaps we just see things differently. I am a lesbian who has gotten over her obsession with &#8220;male domination&#8221; and patriarchal this and that. It just made me hostile and bitter. I can still be a feminist, but still accept the differences between genders. That is a reason why I object to the use of &#8220;phallocentric&#8221;. It just comes off as anti-male, which is a mistake our feminist forebears made. We have to accept biology for what it is and make changes to the culture by treating everyone equally, not using words that divide. Go ahead and use such words, but to make change, you&#8217;ll need men on your side. You can&#8217;t get them on your side if you make them feel hostile. I&#8217;m fighting for marriage equality, but am realistic to know we need straights on our side. That&#8217;s why you won&#8217;t catch me using words like &#8220;heterocentric&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Manda</title>
		<link>http://feministsforchoice.com/female-homosexuality-a-brief-overview.htm/comment-page-1#comment-2496</link>
		<dc:creator>Manda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministsforchoice.com/?p=3297#comment-2496</guid>
		<description>Homosexuality in ancient Rome was HIGHLY stigmatized. The frescoes of Pompeii depict the activity of slaves being penetrated by masters as a means of punishment and humiliation. Romans saw homosexuality, particularly male, as demeaning, especially if you were a bottom. They had very &quot;macho&quot; ideas when it came to masculinity (one might theorize they are the root of ideas on masculinity throughout history, even still up to our present times), and to be treated like a woman was the ultimate insult and humiliation. 
That&#039;s not to say homosexuality didn&#039;t occur, that&#039;s not even to say it wasn&#039;t somewhat common - just that it was highly stigmatized by society (this was a brief overview, after all :) ).
My issues with the cultural obsession over lesbian sex is two-fold. Firstly, I don&#039;t think we should be promoting one type of homosexual sex and insulting another in nearly the same breath. Human sexuality is a beautiful thing, and I think we should be celebrating female-only AND male-only couplings. Secondly, the frat boy-mentality that &quot;heh heh, two chicks doing each other is totally HOT&quot; perverts the act, and makes &quot;females to openly declaring and embracing their sexuality&quot; only acceptable because it&#039;s been male-approved.
As for my use of the word &quot;phallocentric&quot;...um...I guess I don&#039;t understand the point of even bringing it up...I hear and see the word used quite often myself, and as it&#039;s been used in a completely appropriate context, I guess I don&#039;t get what your issue with my usage is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Homosexuality in ancient Rome was HIGHLY stigmatized. The frescoes of Pompeii depict the activity of slaves being penetrated by masters as a means of punishment and humiliation. Romans saw homosexuality, particularly male, as demeaning, especially if you were a bottom. They had very &#8220;macho&#8221; ideas when it came to masculinity (one might theorize they are the root of ideas on masculinity throughout history, even still up to our present times), and to be treated like a woman was the ultimate insult and humiliation.<br />
That&#8217;s not to say homosexuality didn&#8217;t occur, that&#8217;s not even to say it wasn&#8217;t somewhat common &#8211; just that it was highly stigmatized by society (this was a brief overview, after all <img src='http://feministsforchoice.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ).<br />
My issues with the cultural obsession over lesbian sex is two-fold. Firstly, I don&#8217;t think we should be promoting one type of homosexual sex and insulting another in nearly the same breath. Human sexuality is a beautiful thing, and I think we should be celebrating female-only AND male-only couplings. Secondly, the frat boy-mentality that &#8220;heh heh, two chicks doing each other is totally HOT&#8221; perverts the act, and makes &#8220;females to openly declaring and embracing their sexuality&#8221; only acceptable because it&#8217;s been male-approved.<br />
As for my use of the word &#8220;phallocentric&#8221;&#8230;um&#8230;I guess I don&#8217;t understand the point of even bringing it up&#8230;I hear and see the word used quite often myself, and as it&#8217;s been used in a completely appropriate context, I guess I don&#8217;t get what your issue with my usage is.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz_Az</title>
		<link>http://feministsforchoice.com/female-homosexuality-a-brief-overview.htm/comment-page-1#comment-2495</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz_Az</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 00:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministsforchoice.com/?p=3297#comment-2495</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s incorrect to say that &quot;Romans didn&#039;t share the Greek&#039;s flair for same-sex relations&quot;. It is more accurate to state that Roman homosexuality was practiced differently than in ancient Greece, cultural differences being what they are. All it takes is a tour of Pompeii to view the many frescos and graffiti depicting homosexual and bisexual activities. The Romans also placed great value in large penises, as opposed to the Greeks, who did not. There is also ample evidence that Roman male homosexuals married. 

Perhaps you meant to state that the Romans didn&#039;t share the same &quot;flair&quot; for lesbian relations? For man-on-man action, the Romans were just as much eager as the Greeks. It&#039;s just that Roman culture had what appears to be a general distaste for lesbianism. But then, so did Greek society. They just happen to have a bit more tolerance toward us lesbians. Regardless, lesbianism was frowned upon in the ancient world.

Unlike AJ however, I find the cultural &quot;obsession&quot; with girl-on-girl action to be refreshing, because it allows a window of opportunity for females to openly declare and embrace their sexuality that doesn&#039;t fit within the &quot;straight, barefoot &amp; pregnant&quot; cultural pardigm. We should be applauding the independence of action and the liberty of choice.

One last note: the word &quot;phallocentric&quot; is so 1992. The only time I hear the word being used is when it&#039;s uttered by college students. you hardly ever hear that word being used in real life outside of academia.

Sources: 

Williams, Craig Arthur (1999) Roman Homosexuality: ideologies of masculinity in classical antiquity. Oxford University Press

Hallett, Judith P., &amp; Skinner, Marilyn B, eds. (1997) Roman Sexualities. Princeton University Press</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s incorrect to say that &#8220;Romans didn&#8217;t share the Greek&#8217;s flair for same-sex relations&#8221;. It is more accurate to state that Roman homosexuality was practiced differently than in ancient Greece, cultural differences being what they are. All it takes is a tour of Pompeii to view the many frescos and graffiti depicting homosexual and bisexual activities. The Romans also placed great value in large penises, as opposed to the Greeks, who did not. There is also ample evidence that Roman male homosexuals married. </p>
<p>Perhaps you meant to state that the Romans didn&#8217;t share the same &#8220;flair&#8221; for lesbian relations? For man-on-man action, the Romans were just as much eager as the Greeks. It&#8217;s just that Roman culture had what appears to be a general distaste for lesbianism. But then, so did Greek society. They just happen to have a bit more tolerance toward us lesbians. Regardless, lesbianism was frowned upon in the ancient world.</p>
<p>Unlike AJ however, I find the cultural &#8220;obsession&#8221; with girl-on-girl action to be refreshing, because it allows a window of opportunity for females to openly declare and embrace their sexuality that doesn&#8217;t fit within the &#8220;straight, barefoot &amp; pregnant&#8221; cultural pardigm. We should be applauding the independence of action and the liberty of choice.</p>
<p>One last note: the word &#8220;phallocentric&#8221; is so 1992. The only time I hear the word being used is when it&#8217;s uttered by college students. you hardly ever hear that word being used in real life outside of academia.</p>
<p>Sources: </p>
<p>Williams, Craig Arthur (1999) Roman Homosexuality: ideologies of masculinity in classical antiquity. Oxford University Press</p>
<p>Hallett, Judith P., &amp; Skinner, Marilyn B, eds. (1997) Roman Sexualities. Princeton University Press</p>
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		<title>By: Shanman</title>
		<link>http://feministsforchoice.com/female-homosexuality-a-brief-overview.htm/comment-page-1#comment-2468</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:27:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministsforchoice.com/?p=3297#comment-2468</guid>
		<description>This is my favorite Sappho poem

He seems to me equal to gods that man
whoever he is who opposite you
sits and listens close
to your sweet speaking

and lovely laughing---oh it
puts the heart in my chest on wings
for when I look at you, even a moment, no speaking
is left in me

no: tongue breaks and thin
fire is racing under skin
and in eyes no sight and drumming
fills ears

and cold sweat holds me and shaking
grips me all, greener than grass
I am and dead---or almost
I seem to me.

But all is to be dared, because even a person of poverty</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is my favorite Sappho poem</p>
<p>He seems to me equal to gods that man<br />
whoever he is who opposite you<br />
sits and listens close<br />
to your sweet speaking</p>
<p>and lovely laughing&#8212;oh it<br />
puts the heart in my chest on wings<br />
for when I look at you, even a moment, no speaking<br />
is left in me</p>
<p>no: tongue breaks and thin<br />
fire is racing under skin<br />
and in eyes no sight and drumming<br />
fills ears</p>
<p>and cold sweat holds me and shaking<br />
grips me all, greener than grass<br />
I am and dead&#8212;or almost<br />
I seem to me.</p>
<p>But all is to be dared, because even a person of poverty</p>
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		<title>By: freewomyn</title>
		<link>http://feministsforchoice.com/female-homosexuality-a-brief-overview.htm/comment-page-1#comment-2463</link>
		<dc:creator>freewomyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministsforchoice.com/?p=3297#comment-2463</guid>
		<description>Love this, Manda.  You are making this ancient history stuff actually interesting!  Keep &#039;em coming!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love this, Manda.  You are making this ancient history stuff actually interesting!  Keep &#8216;em coming!</p>
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		<title>By: aj</title>
		<link>http://feministsforchoice.com/female-homosexuality-a-brief-overview.htm/comment-page-1#comment-2457</link>
		<dc:creator>aj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministsforchoice.com/?p=3297#comment-2457</guid>
		<description>excellent historical analysis. I definitely have quite a disdain for this cultural obsession with girl on girl action. Such a commodification of lesbian desire. Ugh, frat boys are so frustrating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent historical analysis. I definitely have quite a disdain for this cultural obsession with girl on girl action. Such a commodification of lesbian desire. Ugh, frat boys are so frustrating.</p>
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		<title>By: Subliminal</title>
		<link>http://feministsforchoice.com/female-homosexuality-a-brief-overview.htm/comment-page-1#comment-2454</link>
		<dc:creator>Subliminal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://feministsforchoice.com/?p=3297#comment-2454</guid>
		<description>What a cool post, thanks for sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a cool post, thanks for sharing.</p>
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